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carbonates's avatar

As a geologist, dealing with long time scales becomes ingrained. I find it fascinating that the IPCC/WMO considers 30 years to be a statistical unit. So I made my own thought experiment, using the past 10K years, which is a period of climate that that likely represents a partial climate cycle and has persisted since the last glacial maximum, thus being a warming period, we would have 333 units of "statistical climate change measurement." But in reality, without using proxy methods of measuring climate that are often only relative measurements, such as tree rings or isotopes, we probably only have 5 units of statistical records (and I am being generous). So really we have seen and attempted to measure (I say attempted because the methods have not been consistent over 150 years), only 1.5% of the climate for the past ten thousand years. And ten thousand years likely represents some sort of partial climate cycle. Yet there are claims that we can see "climate change" in what is essentially a statistically invalid sample for making that conclusion. Considering that the external cycles that affect climate, such as Milankovitch Cycles, with periodicity ranging from 413,000 years to 19,000 years, and Solar Cycles of 8-14 years, which appear to have some larger periodicity outside those limits (e.g. Maunder Minimum). Other internal cycles such as El Nino/La Nina (ENSO) are still poorly understood but proxy methods show these have existed for thousands of years (these are mostly likely controlled by the Wilson Cycle of Plate Tectonics which is in millions of years). I find it hard to believe that a 30 year period of "climate" is meaningful until tens if not hundreds of those units have been observed. And even if for the sake of a thought experiment those units were reduced to single years, we still don't have a meaningful sample size. I don't believe that any of the hyperbolic climate hysteria has any solid basis in fact or statistic, other than being one possible outcome among many more or much less dramatic outcomes, and the opposite conclusion of "global cooling" being almost as likely still. Then I would add to the thought experiment the fact that most of the planet is covered by water, and most of that water-covered area is unmapped and poorly understood, so how do we know the changes taking place at seafloor spreading centers, such as rising mountains (undersea mountain ranges are larger than any above sea level), undersea emissions, and influence on long term deep sea ocean currents? It seems to me we barely have any statistical control over the internal climate factors, much less the external factors. Don't get me started on factors that are generally dismissed or ignored such as metamorphism (which emits CO2) and weathering effects on certain rocks (which absorbs CO2). Then there is the simple fact that 99.99% of all the carbon dioxide on the planet has already been sequestered by marine organisms in the form of carbonate rocks, a process that continues today and has a very apparent directional trend. And I would suggest there too is a cycle in oil and natural gas deposits being returned to the atmosphere from where they originated, since oil and gas is a product of photosynthesis, caused by massive natural oil spills (in the billions of barrels) that can be documented in the rocks many places in the world.

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Sharon F.'s avatar

Thanks, Roger for looking into this.. I get lost at the abstraction "extreme events". Can we enumerate those? Extreme heat (how much above what measure?); extreme cold (how much below what measure)? Extreme wind (same); extreme hail (same). These all could have different causes and relation to climate change. Then, if you believed that both extreme cold and heat are related to climate change, then cc is effectively lengthening the tails at both ends of the temperature distribution, which I don't think has ever been (directly) claimed. So I think it might be helpful to dive into the specific extreme events as often abstractions can be used to obfuscate rather than clarify.

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