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Jory  Pacht's avatar

You state:

One reason why mitigation wonks focus on electrification — of cars, heating, stoves, ships, and more — is that we know how to produce vast amounts of electricity with low or zero carbon dioxide emissions.

I would be careful making that statement: The wind and the sun are renewable, but solar PV cells, wind turbines, transmission lines, etc. are not. The minerals have to be mined to create these things, they have to be processed, the products have to be manufactured, they have to be shipped and installed. All this takes energy. How much energy?

Well, there are a few groups in Europe who are working on this exact problem. The groundbreaking paper by Weibbach et al, 2013 who looked at energy returned over invested (EROI) The authors looked at all type of energy plants and calculated the energy cost of mining the materials, refining the materials, transporting the materials, building the plant, maintaining the plant and decommissioning the plant. They found that for a nuclear power plant you would get 75 times more energy than you invested over the lifetime of the plant. However, the numbers do not look nearly as good for wind and solar. For solar with battery backup in a temperate environment, that number declines to 1.6X.

A later work by Ferroni and Hopkirk 2016, observed that Weibbach et al., 2013 failed to take into account the energy cost of integrating solar energy with battery backup into a grid. When they did that, the number dropped to 0.82X. What this means is that the energy cost of a solar farm with battery backup is greater than the total amount of energy that that farm will produce during its lifetime. Since many of the components of a solar farm come from China, that means that coal and diesel were the primary sources of energy.

We are not reducing our CO2 emissions with the construction of wind and solar farms; we are simply outsourcing them to China. Last I checked the earth has only one atmosphere and what is emitted in China does not stay in China.

Weibbach et al, 2013 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360544213000492

Ferroni and Hopkirk

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421516301379

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Mark Silbert's avatar

The bathtub analogy is fundamentally flawed. The assumption is that overflowing the tub ends up in catastrophic destruction of the house and the inevitable conclusion that you need to avoid overflow at any cost. In the case of CO2 and the atmosphere there is little basis for assuming that increasing CO2 content results in catastrophic destruction. It seems to me that this is just a tactic for positing that there is a cause and effect linkage between CO2 emissions and catastrophic climate change that can be avoided by turning the CO2 control knob.

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